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Oct. 18, 2021

How Does CliftonStrengths® Compare to Enneagram? With Guest Chris Heinz S3/E6

How Does CliftonStrengths® Compare to Enneagram? With Guest Chris Heinz S3/E6

How does CliftonStrengths® compare to other personal and professional assessments?  This episode is the first in a 3 part series where we dive into that question with assessment experts! 
Meet this week's featured guest:  Chris Heinz is a coach, trainer,...

How does CliftonStrengths® compare to other personal and professional assessments?  This episode is the first in a 3 part series where we dive into that question with assessment experts! 

Meet this week's featured guest:  Chris Heinz is a coach, trainer, and writer who helps people to know themselves, serve others and live their life calling. He is the former Chief People Officer for EnergyCAP, LLC, and now leads Chris Heinz Co. full-time. Chris is certified in CliftonStrengths and the Enneagram. He is a top-rated learning partner for Penn State, founder of the Life Calling Institute, host of the Life Calling Today podcast, and published author.



  • How Enneagram and Clifton Strengths are in alignment
  • What makes them different and what to watch out for when using Enneagram
  • How to successfully use assessments on your self-discovery journey

Chris's Book Recommendation & Quote 

 “Make Your Job a Calling,” by Bryan Dik & Ryan Duffy:

"Across all occupations, those with a calling orientation were more satisfied with their current work and with life in general and scored highest on a measure of zest—defined as “the habitual approach to life with anticipation, energy, and excitement.”  From  "Make Your Job a Calling" by Bryan Dik & Ryan Duffy 

Connect with Chris: 

www.ChrisHeinz.com https://www.instagram.com/chrisheinzco/ https://www.facebook.com/ChrisHeinzCo www.lifecallingsummit.com https://www.chrisheinz.com/resources - free downloads on strengths and enneagram



Connect with Sheri! 

Have questions or comments about today’s episode? 

Email Sheri at sheri@navigatingyourleadership.com

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Gallup®, Clifton StrengthsFinder®, StrengthsFinder®, the 34 Clifton StrengthsFinder® theme names, and the 10 Entrepreneurial StrengthsFinder® theme names are trademarks of Gallup, Inc.


Sheri Miter  0:00  
Have you ever been in a conversation and you are getting ready to say something that's going to be very insightful? Or ask a really great deep question, and it goes blank, you totally forget what you're about to say. Well, that happened during our conversation today with our special guests to Chris Heinz. And I knew it was good. And I totally blanked out on what I wanted to say you'll hear that in the pod. And I'm pretty sure I'm not alone, please let me know I'm not alone in that happening. But it was after we, I finished the recording, and we were just having a quick conversation afterwards that it, it dawned on me what I wanted to say. And it really didn't have to do with our topic of conversation today because Chris and I got into a conversation on the differences and similarities of Clifton strengths versus the enneagram. Because he is certified in both of those. But he was also sharing a lot and we were talking a lot about just our life calling which is Chris's area of expertise, but also how just go in on our own self discovery course lead to for him, he mentioned that his he had doors open up and then he talked about being in alignment. And that was what I had wanted to share that I forgot earlier. With that that's the beautiful thing when we go on these self discovery explorations. And or maybe it's just we just want to tweak some things that are current job or current career. Or maybe it is we're looking for a whole nother job or career. But we know we're on the right path, when we just have this overall feeling of things just feel more in alignment, it's not as stressful as it once had been, doesn't mean there's never stress in our lives, that really is never going to happen. But you just have that more peace about it. Also, the huge thing is that doors start to open up. And that's the real key to me, when we know we're on the right path. And we're doing the thing that God has called us to do because doors start opening up, reverses. If you're in a place where you feel like like doors are slamming on you, when you got to push it, push it push it so hard to open it up. Or maybe you've been sometimes you feel like you're hitting a brick wall, it's time to really do some deep self discovery. And on that note, I want to introduce our guests for today because that's what we talked about. And that's the beautiful thing, whether you you take Clifton strengths, or you take the inia gram or better yet you do both which hopefully I feel like after this conversation with Chris, you will feel like me it's like okay, I can see where they both are useful. Um, do some self discovery take the time to do that. So let me tell you a little bit about Chris Hines. He is a coach, trainer and writer who helps people to know themselves serve others and live their life calling. He is the former chief people officer for energy cap, LLC, and now leads Chris Hines co full time. Chris is certified and Clifton strengths and the enneagram. He is a top rated learning partner for Penn State founder of the life calling Institute, host of the life calling today podcast and published author. So sit back and enjoy this insightful conversation with Chris. 

Sheri Miter  3:28  
Welcome to the Navigating Your Leadership podcast where we are changing the wave of the future. Like it or not, the world has changed. And as an exceptional leader, you have to change with it or risk being left behind. Hi, I'm your host Sheri Miter. I'm here to help you navigate this new leadership style. Inside the podcast you'll discover what your team really wants and needs from you. How to tap into your God given talents, how to increase your productivity with a strengths based team and how to realign with your North Star to truly enjoy your work and your life. This podcast will inspire and empower you today so you can elevate your influence into the future. If you're ready to step out of your comfort zone that untie those dock lines and jump on board as we begin navigating your leadership. Welcome back to The navigating your leadership podcast. This is your host Sherry Miter and I am thrilled to welcome our guest today who is another Gallup certified strengths coach Chris Heinz. And he's also an expert not only in strengths, but also in enneagram. And that's conversation is going to at least start talking about and if you listen to any my podcast, you know sometimes we go in a whole nother direction. So who knows where the conversation will end up but I'm excited to welcome you to the show, Chris.

Chris Heinz  4:52  
Hey Sheri, good morning and listeners. I'm glad to be with you today.

Sheri Miter  4:57  
So and Chris also has a podcast and as well, which I highly recommend, and what's the name of your podcast just so we don't forget that later, Chris?

Chris Heinz  5:05  
it is called Life Calling Today, we most recently did have another strengths coach on there, we've actually had a couple certified strengths coaches on there. And so we talked about life calling and purpose and strengths and sort of how it all works together.

Sheri Miter  5:20  
Wonderful. And I love that in the strengths community, that there is so much collaboration with within the strengths coaches, because even though we have that common thread of being Gallup certified coaches, we all have our own spin out on our own experience that we bring to the table at our own direction, where we take the strikes, because strength is so valuable, so many aspects of people's lives, whether it's relationships, health, career, calling leadership, teamwork. So what I'd love to start with before I totally get off in another tangent is tell us a little bit about who is Chris Heinz? How did you get to this place where you are in life today?

Chris Heinz  6:06  
Yeah, great question, Sherry. So I will try to keep this short, because it could you could go along. So for years and years, I was in sales and marketing for the family business, a software company of about 60 employees. And a few years ago, five years ago, I was looking at turning 40. And I hit this stage when I was like, I'm not sure I want to keep doing this for the rest of my life. You know, it was kind of a kind of a bit of a crisis of identity and of work. And so I started a discovery process. strengths was part of that, where I really dug in and thought, when do I did I feel most alive, what kind of impact on I make what am I good at. And I really ended up on the track of people development, helping people grow. But the problem was my job didn't really support that I was in sales and marketing, I decided what I wanted to do was become a coach, and help people become more of who they are, help them take next steps. Well, thankfully, the Human Resources position opened up at energy cap. And I was able to slide right into that, because the my emphasis on personal growth and development, I immediately got certified in Clifton strengths, rolled out an engagement program, and began helping people grow kind of on an organizational level. What happened at that point was kind of word spread. In our town, I live where Penn State University is headquartered, they needed someone to come in and do strengths. And so all these opportunities started opening up, not just in my company, but you know, outside of the company as well. And so that opened up all sorts of doors. And I was able to do both my human resources role. And on the side, do this strengths work. And so I began developing my own business, Chris Heinz co on the side. Fast forward to now, five years later, very fulfilling a lot of growth, but I decided, hey, I want to do this growth stuff full time, outside of the company, I don't want to just sort of juggle both roles. And so now and full time for my own business, Chris Hines Co. And I, in addition to strengths have got turned on to the topic of life calling. Because self awareness through strengths is a integral part of understanding your life calling. So now today, I'm founder of the life calling Institute, where we help folks explore calling, and I also do quite a bit of work around strengths.

Sheri Miter  8:48  
I love that and I love that you have filled life calling Institute. That sounds so cool.

Chris Heinz  8:56  
Yeah, we're just starting out, we're just starting out. But we are excited for where it's gonna go.

Sheri Miter  9:02  
And I think it's such a valuable tool right now because so many people and I know you talk about this in your podcast as well, but especially with COVID. I mean, even before COVID I think there's so many people that are looking for that what's next I used to call it because you know, we turn today's retirement doesn't look like it did 10 years ago, 20 years ago, for sure it's not retiring and sitting in the rocking chair. Sometimes it's not retiring and like okay, I still have a lot left in me actually, probably more than I ever gave. So what can I do next? And then with COVID on top of that people are looking even earlier now of like, okay, that's whether by choice or not, they're realizing what they've been doing isn't what they want to continue to do anymore. So

Chris Heinz  9:49  
yeah, there's this this dynamic called the Great resignation. Yeah. folks talk about right, where folks are like, Hey, I'm not willing to sacrifice these certain values. are ways of life for a job. I want to do meaningful work. And yeah, you're right Sherry, a lot of people asking the question, why am I here? How do I feel fulfilled? What impact do I want to make on the world?

Sheri Miter  10:13  
And I love that address because prior to we just rebranded the podcast to navigate in your leadership, and prior to that it was Uncharted entrepreneurs. And actually, my original plan a year and a half ago was similar to what you're doing now. And then I just realized that wasn't my calling. My calling was more of how do we make people? Okay, you're in this job? You like this job? How do we make it even better, more productive? So it's like, I'm gonna work with people who want to stay where they are. And if they don't, they can call you to go figure out what's next, right?

Chris Heinz  10:47  
Yeah, yeah, right. There's different ways to look at one's work and job and sometimes the answer is, turn it into more of a calling. There's actually a really great book I commend to you, Sherry, and your and your listeners, called make your job a calling. And this book is the idea of if you can turn your current work into more of a calling mindset. There are winds all around, and so maybe some of your listeners would be interested in that make your job a calling.

Sheri Miter  11:15  
I'll definitely check that out. So what are your top five? strengths, Chris? Yeah, so

Chris Heinz  11:21  
my top five Clifton strengths are belief Maximizer, responsibility, empathy, and developer.

Sheri Miter  11:30  
So I could see where those definitely probably help you really hear people and show them the direction of their life calling. And now I see why with belief. Number one, I don't before we hit the record, we were just talking a little bit about how we both love to integrate our faith into our businesses. And that totally makes sense. You do that with belief is your number one. And I know when we were just talking briefly beforehand to about that you did take I get asked this question a lot. Should I retake my strengths? It's been a while. And you did retake it. Can we just talk briefly about that before we do jump into our actual topic of the day?

Chris Heinz  12:12  
Yeah, definitely. Well, last fall. So like a year ago, I went through this kind of awakening, which was a series of events. And it actually started my wife for my birthday gave me this book called dream big, by this author named Bob Gough, by the way, this is kind of interesting. So in November 2, I'm doing the life calling virtual summit with Bob Goff. And so that's a free event. When I encourage anyone to go to life calling summit comm for you to sign up, we're going to drink, we're going to help you dream, discover and dare around the issue of life calling, so go there. But this whole stream of events happened with this book called dream big. It just caught me asking questions about my life, where it was headed, the kinds of ambitions that I had. And it was something that God really did, he unpacked me. And I felt a bit apprehended by him. And I looked at myself in a new way and realized I was really limiting myself through some self limiting beliefs, which were then giving rise to some self limiting behaviors. And so was this like big aha awakening kind of a thing. And so part of that was retaking the Clifton strengths assessment, which I had taken in 2007. So this is now about what, 14 years later. And so I decided to retake the that as well as looking at the enneagram in a different way, which you and I will get to. And what's interesting about retaking that was retaking the Clifton strengths assessment is that my top 10 probably 50% of the themes changed, whereas before, compared to now 50% different. So that was very, pretty significant, I think in terms of in terms of a change.

Sheri Miter  14:11  
Yeah, that's a big change. And I know Gallup always usually says not to unless you're going through different life's that, you know, major life situations that it usually won't change that much. So I found that very fascinating that yours did. Why do you think that is? I'm just kind of curious about that now. Like, what were you doing in 2007 and versus today?

Chris Heinz  14:32  
Yeah. 2007. I was in a marketing leadership role, where it was a lot of kind of project management, and leading people. It wasn't very focused individual development. I was marketing software. And so I think what's different today is, I am pushing out some new ideas. I'm leading a whole charge my company, I think that's different today, I have a lot more autonomy today than I did before. So I think that's different. But what's interesting is if you look at the domains, you know, the executing relating to people thinking and influencing folks, the domains are pretty set from my 10. It's just the individual themes tended to change. One big difference too is before I had to go like to number 12, to get a thinking talent. Today, ideation is like number seven, for me, and so ideation moved up a lot, thinking moved up a lot, but the domains stayed pretty fixed, it was just a matter of how I live out those those domains.

Sheri Miter  15:47  
So what do you lead with? What is your top domain?

Chris Heinz  15:50  
My top domain is, I'd say, if you look at the top 10, it's more relationship than anything else.

Sheri Miter  16:01  

Chris Heinz  16:02  
relationships and influencing as the main ones. And so those, those both are in the realm of relationship. Yeah.

Sheri Miter  16:11  
That's a great combination. relationship and influencing. That's a really cool combination to have. I have implemented new strategic. Yeah, I see like a lot, I feel like that that's common to have those but relationship and influencing.

Chris Heinz  16:28  
Yeah, and this is where I'm grateful to have the full 34. For so long, I lived from my top five. And I only saw myself as an executer. And relation relationship, because those were the only domains in my top five. And then I got curious about what's beyond my top five. And if you look at the top 10, it's actually more like I said, influencing and relating, it's it's executing is there that helps me get stuff done. And everyone who knows me knows I'm pretty productive, and I get things done. So I'm thankful and grateful for those talents. But primarily, I live from relating and influencing had not known that, I don't think I'd be as maybe forward moving as I am.

Sheri Miter  17:17  
If that makes sense. That totally makes sense. And I can see now why you're probably amazing at coaching, but yet can also do like the summit that you were speaking of, because that takes a lot of influencing. So to have that the two of them put together. Yeah, that's pretty impactful. So let's get into our topic here. And you already kind of alluded so you're on the personal discovery. How do you feel like First of all, both knowing the strings kind of going from your journey, and probably what you take your clients through? How strengths and the enneagram work well together? Let's maybe start there.

Chris Heinz  17:55  
Sure. Yeah. Well, I appreciate both tools. And I was into strengths for years before I was into the enneagram. So I really love strengths, I predominantly use strengths, I found that the enneagram just helped to fill in the picture a bit for who a person is, I look at strengths as your talents as your sort of how you're going about life. I think the enneagram is more about your drive your motivation, kind of why you're going about it. And so together, you have the talent and the drive, you've got the how you've got the why. And so it just kind of fills in a picture about who a person is, what motivates them and how they go about doing it.

Sheri Miter  18:43  
Okay, I like that. Definitely, you know, the way you clarify that. And if somebody wasn't familiar, they hear me talk about strengths a lot. But if somebody wasn't familiar with the inia Graham, what would be a quick way to describe what that assessment is. That tool is well

Chris Heinz  19:02  
Clifton strengths, as you know, has 34 talent themes, which helps to explain a person's you know, inherent in a god given talents. The enneagram is a personality profile system, around nine drives, or nine personality types. And what's interesting about the enneagram is it's totally open source. No one owns the enneagram and so lately you see a lot of innovation and thought kind of around it. And so in a way there's folks are a lot more free to kind of teach it and use it than they are Clifton strengths because it is owned and it's you know, proprietary information. And so the enneagram helps, helps you understand your core motivations, your feelings, behavior styles, communication styles, all centered around these nine different personality styles.

Sheri Miter  20:03  
Okay. And I'm just thinking so you with the fact that Gallup does own strengths, obviously, there's a lot of regulation and you have to become a certified coach. I mean, they do allow others to use it within their, even before I was certified, I was using gal or get using strengths. But with the enneagram, that probably causes a lot of like, really great innovation. But also some like, is that really?

Chris Heinz  20:32  
Yeah, no, it's a great, great point. Yeah, you have to be careful about how it's being used. I mean, I personally wouldn't agree or sort of recommend to people endorse to people, some of the ways the anagrams being used in today's world, not everyone's comfortable with how it's being used. And so same with me, what I would do is understand who's behind this teaching? How is it being used? That's actually a reason why I like to develop kind of my own stuff, and point people in that direction. Because I mean, I, I'm not perfect, I'm not the, you know, the expert on everything, but I trust kind of the process I go through to kind of get information out there. I often have questions about how valid is this really, from strengths minded people, you know, because we take the Clifton strengths assessment, we recommend it to people, we kind of expect it to have the same validity factor and reliability, because we put so much trust in Clifton strengths. I don't have the same level of trust factor in the enneagram assessments out there. And there are many you can find lots of free enneagram assessments. I don't think an assessment is the only way to understand identify your enneagram Drive. It is a journey and a process that is best done in community done in time and done with a coach. Whereas Clifton strengths, you can pretty much hand someone the Clifton strengths assessment, and you trust the results right away. You don't question it. I would not say the same thing about the enneagram. If you're going to dive into the enneagram, expect to work at it. Expect to ask yourself some deep questions. Expect to go on more of a journey. I think for strengths, the journey is more. Okay, here's my talents, how do I turn them into strengths? How do I aim them toward my work? That's really where the journey is, I think for the enneagram. There's a huge journey. And just first identifying which of your of the nine types is your core type, we record drive, and the growth goes from there. So we need to be careful those of us who know strengths and the enneagram, we need to be careful not to ascribe the same power or the same rules principles and using one over the other. They are different tools.

Sheri Miter  23:12  
That's that's really insightful. So how do they you kind of already talked a little bit about this, but how would you say that they are similar? And then you kind of I guess you've really kind of talked about how they do differ already. But how would you say they are similar? And what aspects?

Chris Heinz  23:31  
Well, they're similar in that they're both, you know, personality tools. So within the whole realm of a tool, their personality tools, so there's similar there, they can help us understand ourselves better. You know, in terms of self awareness, I think there's a journey involved with both of them. And, you know, I think they both benefit from the presence of a coach and from a community. I do think there are workplace value, there's workplace value from both, just as there's personal and home life value from both. And there are assessments around both of them. But like I said, there's some variability in how well you're going to trust those assessments. I also think that if you really want to grow from both of them, you need to dig in, like you got to do some work. You can't just take an assessment and be like, I'm good, I'm done. No, there's work involved here. So I think those are some of the ways they're similar. Plus, I would also add, there are communities of people who are passionate about both tools.

Sheri Miter  24:42  
Right? I love the community aspect because it's so true. And when you have that and somebody else that understands the language or you can bounce ideas off of or get more clarification and even just, you know, when we always ask, you know, what's your top five, if you're talking to somebody that is familiar with strengths, it's so fun to kind Have not compare in a, oh, they have this, I don't have that, but just how they use it and see the differences in that conversation have a conversation about things.

Chris Heinz  25:14  
Let me say, Sure, one more area of alignment that I've seen with them both, is this. So we know that Gallup defines talent as naturally recurring patterns of thought feeling and behavior that can be productively applied. So you hear those three modes of living, thought, feeling and behavior, and the enneagram. There's this principle of what's called centers of intelligence, which basically means we live from our head, from our heart, and also from our instinct, or gut, okay, centers of intelligence. And each of the nine types live from a different center of intelligence. So this aligns with gallops definition of talent, when you might remember gallops definition says feeling thinking or behaving that really aligns with these three centers of intelligence of head thinking, heart can be feeling or relating and gut instinct, which is kind of doing. So I think they both agree that there are these three modes of living in life, what we want to do is kind of learn how to be healthy in those areas.

Sheri Miter  26:27  
I love that. Love that a lot. And I had a friend mentor once and he had spent really a year of doing all the different assessments. And I just remember having this conversation with him, he was in such a great place of peace and an inner strength. Because what he had said was that he just spent this last year really discovering who he was at his core at his best. And now he felt so much more. And he was already an amazing, amazing at his job, amazing, Coach mentor. But he was like, I feel so much more ready. Now I don't know if that makes grammatical sense. But more ready, I don't know, like to pour into others, because he was so in alignment with who he was at his absolute best. And I just that has always stuck with me, I think I heard that like three or four years ago, we had that conversation. So I don't think we can ever take to I shouldn't say never, because there probably are some assessments out there that don't need to be bothered taking, or ones that do have at least some validity to them to know who we are, that we can turn around and give to others. And another thing you said about going deeper with both of them I could not agree more is. And I did this myself with the strings. I took it in 2016 for the first time and I don't remember why I took it. But I never did a thing with it. I probably was one of those people, which probably a lot of people listening maybe in that that arena, have you read it, whether it's the anagram and the strengths. You read the description like Oh, that's interesting. Yep, they got me pretty spot on that sounds about right. And that's the end of it. Yeah, you're right. And at that point, it's an it's purely an assessment, it's not a tool. And to make it a tool, you have to pick it up and use it and like you said, Diamond, you know, use a coach, use a community, um, use your own personal self discovery with it. So I think that is no matter what assessment you're talking about it you know, instead of just taking it and agreeing with it.

Chris Heinz  28:51  
Yeah, that's what happened to me last year as part of this awakening is I had seen myself as a type nine on the enneagram core drive there is to be a piece. And for a couple of years, I saw myself that way I was teaching the enneagram and everything. But I realized through this awakening last fall, no, I'm really a type three, core drive to succeed. It was a huge, huge moment of revelation for me. And I got to tell you, because I went deeper in my true type, and therefore my true drive and motivation. The whole world is opened up to me. Like I I am at peace generally still, but I know what I'm here for. All this work opened up for me because I really came to see myself as I am and started living from that. And so for me Yeah, it was a little bit embarrassing to admit like I'm teaching the enneagram to people and I'd miss typed myself, but it just kind of goes to show you it is a journey and we understand ourselves only through a dim glass You know, and we need really revelation from God, I believe, to show us who we are. And so now that I've come to that place of more fullness like your friend has come to, and I see myself more for who I am, like my work life has opened up. And I have a clear vision about what I'm here to do.

Sheri Miter  30:22  
So that's such a great feeling when you have that. Yes, you had a question that went just went out of my head? That's not a good feeling. Oh, it was good to Oh. So if somebody's listening to this, and maybe they're new to both, maybe they haven't really, maybe they haven't even taken their strengths assessment, or maybe they have, but they haven't dove into it. And maybe they same thing, maybe they have or have not even really looked at the enneagram. And they're thinking, Okay, I want that piece. I want that self discovery, which one do they start with first?

Chris Heinz  31:05  
I think starting with strengths is better. And that's what I usually recommend. Because coaches asked me all the time, you know, we run this enneagram for strength coaches boot camp, several times a year, we're in one right now, we're about to finish that up. So I meet strengths enthusiasts and enneagram enthusiasts, you know, all the time, who want to use these tools for helping professions. And so I get this question a lot. What I will usually say is, go with what the client is looking for. If the client is looking for more performance improvement, I would go with strengths first. But if a client is going more for haywire, my emotions, like totally whacked out, like I had someone recently come to me for that, or, you know, I just don't understand what makes me tick. I would shoot for the enneagram on that one. So basically, what one of the differences between tools, I see Clifton strengths is more about performance and satisfaction. I think of Enneagram more as motivation and well being. And but I think that strength is simpler generally to understand. There's less questions around it. And the Enneagram , gosh, it takes you deep, it's a vulnerable type of tool, because you can talk about what are masking behaviors, I get into, like, what are serious shortfalls I live into, because of my drive, I mean, it's a deep tool. And so with a new client, you may not want to start there, because it might freak him out a little bit. And so I do default to strengths first. But I think if people have heard about the enneagram, and they kind of come to you, because of there's this trend out there toward the enneagram. And they're curious. I mean, I would lead with that if that's what the client wants. But if my choice, if the choice is mine, I would do strengths first.

Sheri Miter  33:12  
I'm just thinking Do you find with the strengths, because we have the we talk about the bring need? How does that align with Enneagram?

Chris Heinz  33:23  
Does it? Yeah, no, that's a great question. Yeah. So the brain needs so for example, we'll just say for responsibility, because that's in my in my top five, I know that what I bring is a thoroughness, I bring an ownership over the work, it's going to get done, I bring my whole self to that work. What I need is autonomy. You know, to deliver, I need the right resources, I need clear expectations. So that's what I'm bringing in need for my responsibility talent theme. The any gram, I think is a little bit different. In that will say, for me as a type three, my core motivation is to succeed. And so I want to accomplish big things, I have ambitions, I want to be seen as successful, seen as proficient. And so you can actually see how that responsibility theme helps reinforce that drive to succeed, right, because I don't want to let people down. I want to be seen as proficient and competent in responsibility theme. That is how I build that road to success and living out that drive. So I think of strengths bring and need as building blocks on the way to the deeper motivation, which is through the enneagram in my case, the type three to succeed. So it's been fascinating. We did a correlation study between strengths and the enneagram. Last year I got some data analysts together. We got about 500 people's worth of data, where they submitted their top five themes. And then they submitted their core enneagram Drive. And granted, this was all self reported. So we were trusting people. And then we crunched the numbers. And we found some very clear correlations between certain drives and types and certain strengths, themes. And so what this shows is that there are some pretty common building blocks of talent and the strengths that people employ to live out their core motivation, as identified by the enneagram type. Hmm, that's fascinating.

Sheri Miter  35:41  
I think you have that on. I saw that briefly on your website, right? If somebody wanted to dive, if they were curious to learn more about that study is Yeah, yeah.

Chris Heinz  35:51  
Yeah, everyone, I have tons of resources around strengths and enneagram. And actually, employee engagement and life calling and all sorts of stuff. If you go to Chrishines.com/resources, that's Chrishines.com/slash resources, you'll find this comparative study between strengths and the enneagram. And I would encourage, you know you to download that and see what you learn. As part of that study, by the way, too, there's a lot to unpack in the study. And so there's an I think it's a 21 day email series, that you'll just automatically get where every day we unpack a different insight from that study. Hmm, fascinating.

Sheri Miter  36:36  
Well, as usual, the time flies by for these interviews. So it is time to wrap things up. But is there anything else that we didn't cover regarding the strengths and enneagram that you would like to mention?

Chris Heinz  36:52  
Yeah, I think one point Sheri is that, I think for each of these tools, they're underutilized in certain parts of life, which means for those of us as coaches and helping professions, there's great opportunity for us to lean into these underutilized areas. I think, for example, for Clifton strengths, I think our personal lives, relationships causes hobbies, large part are clipped in strings are underutilized in our personal lives, we tend to look at Clifton strengths as a workplace performance tool, and engagement tool, but we can sometimes ignore, ignore the place of it in our personal lives. I think for the enneagram an underutilized space is the workplace. Because we do see this as more of a personal tool. Some people see it as more of a psychological or spiritual tool, but it is being used today in the workplace, Johnson and Johnson, the Salesforce uses it in their hiring process. I'm Stanford Business School, I mean lots of places use the enneagram as a workplace. I'm actually doing some enneagram workshops for this learning development company coming up pretty soon that's the workplace and so for you as a coach if you're looking for ways to expand your market and client tell, I would say hey, if you're Clifton strengths minded, lean more into expanding personal life services and if you want to get into the enneagram lean more into workplace services because I would think that the the harvest is ripe in both of these areas for these tools.

Sheri Miter  38:37  
great insight and I have to say after this conversation you raise the Enneagram  up a level and professionalism for me today so it's always been was like I don't know how I feel about it. So thank you for that and bringing it to and now I'm going to have to go back and take that because i think i think it was a seven hmm I feel like there is some a lot of three in me too so I don't know Yeah,

Chris Heinz  39:06  
well both of those are forward moving types and so we can you know, we can look like one another here. If anyone's interested in validity studies of the enneagram feel free to email me at Chris@ChrisHeinz.com Chris@ChrisHeinz.com I've got a couple of really good enneagram validity studies that I'll be happy to email you and like like Sherry said maybe today's episode raised the bar a little bit on the enneagram and if so that's a good thing.

Sheri Miter  39:38  
Mm hmm. Absolutely. Because as we both have shared, you really can't learn too much about yourself. really can't. Well Chris, this has definitely been an insightful and delightful conversation and if you want to take a minute and just re emphasize I know you already mentioned it but about the summit that you have coming up, and I think you have a resource that we'll put right we'll put a Reese one of the resources right in the show notes. I'll also put Chris's contact information that he's mentioned right there. definitely take time to go check out his beautiful website, he, you do have Chris, like a lot of resources on your website. It's just You're such a giver. I truly how much you get is like, Oh my gosh, how much you give away is amazing. on there. So check that out. But yes, mentioned summit one more time.

Chris Heinz  40:30  
All right. Well, thanks so much, Sherry, for the opportunity to be with your listeners, we are doing a free virtual summit on November 2, that is election day. So vote and and attend our summit. That'll be 4pm. Eastern Time. With three time New York Times bestselling author Bob Gough and myself around the topic of life calling, go to life calling summit calm, that's life calling summit calm to register if you can't attend live, okay, because if you register, you'll get the recording afterwards. And we will be announcing some very exciting things moving forward. So we'd love to have folks there, I'm sure he said to we're going to be linking a comparison guide between strengths and the enneagram. Right there in the show notes. And so if you want to see sort of different categories, and how they compare to each other, go to that document in the show notes. And again, if I can do anything else for you, let me know at Chris at Chris is calm. And my website is Chris Hines calm. Great.

Sheri Miter  41:36  
Well, thank you so much, Chris, again for being on the show. And we can put the link for the summit too, because he doesn't want to especially this time of year, it's a great time of year to really just take advantage of the free summit's and getting a great place as before we head into the holiday season and into the new year, it's going to be here before we know it.

Chris Heinz  41:56  
That's true. That's true. Thanks, Sheri so much for inviting me it was a blessing and a pleasure.

Sheri Miter  42:02  
Thank you. Well, that concludes our conversation today with Chris Heinz. And I hope as always that you walked away with a different thought or something practical that you can implement into your day. Or maybe it's just that you want to go take the enneagram and the strengths assessment now. You can never learn too much about yourself. So I want to finish up because I totally forgot at the end of the podcast recording to ask Chris what his favorite book was, and his leadership quote. So I wanted to share those with you now. And also let you know what's on deck for our next episode. So Chris did mention in the podcast, a book called make your job a calling by Brian dick and Ryan huffy. So that was the book that he wanted to recommend. And he's given us a quote from that, that says, across all occupations, those with a calling orientation, were more satisfied with their current work and with life in general and scored highest on a measure of zest defined as the habitual approach to life with anticipation, energy and excitement. So I don't know about you, but I would love to have more zest in my life. That's what we all want, right? So thank you again, Chris, for being our guest today. And next week, we will be talking with another strength coach, Dr. v. And she's going to be doing a little comparison on how disc the DI SC assessment and strengths are similar and different, and how she's seeing them use in her own practice with her clients, and even with herself, so it's going to be a lively conversation. So we will see you back here or you'll hear us back here next week. Same time on Mondays. Don't miss an episode, make sure you hit the Follow button, and you'll get notified when the new episode does drop on Monday mornings. Thanks again. And as always go out and enjoy this journey of life. 

My hope and prayer is that today's episode left you fill in inspired and empowered with some tangible steps to implement today. But honestly, the podcast is just the beginning. Through my coaching my clients learn how to lean into their strengths to create their unique style of leadership, along with gaining strategies to create dynamic and productive teams, teams with a mutual passion and respect for each other. Whether you just need a few small course corrections or you feel like you need an entirely new ship to lead. I do love a challenge. I'd love to invite you to send me a DM or better yet, let's hop on a call and see how we can continue this leadership journey together. The link to book a call is in the show notes. I look forward to hearing from you

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

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Chris Heinz

Chris Heinz is a coach, trainer, and writer who helps people to know themselves, serve others, and live their life calling. He is the former Chief People Officer for EnergyCAP, LLC, and now leads Chris Heinz Co. full-time. Chris is certified in CliftonStrengths and the Enneagram. He is a top-rated learning partner for Penn State, founder of the Life Calling Institute, host of the Life Calling Today podcast, and published author.